How was the Replica of the Plates Made? Articles of Incorporation: Return to top of page Contact Us: Certificate of Incorporation. Limhi’s 43 . Full text of "Cumorah revisited; or, "The book of Mormon" and the claims of the Mormons re-examined from the viewpoint of American archeology and ethnology" See other formats If I may wax rhapsodic for a moment: It was quite poignant to hear the coordinated hymn at the end. On the contrary, Joseph Smith describes that he found the plates in an anonymous “hill” near his Palmyra home–inside a stone and cement repository. : Put new text under old text. The Land of Desolation and the narrow pass do not appear to have been near to Lake Michigan (Alma 63: 5). Having been to the Hill Cumorah Pageant at other times, I knew that there were plowed fields nearby. The Hill Cumorah in New York is thought to be named for the Cumorah which exists in the land of Moroni’s birth, not the Cumorah that the battle took place in. By What Authority Did Lehi Offer Sacrifices? Copyright © 2012, Phil Michel. Besucherzentrum unterhält und alljährlich das Hill-Cumorah-Pageant abhält. The Olmecs abandoned their cites at the same time as the Jaredites (400 BC). Printer’s Manuscript of the Book of Mormon. So my claim that Smith “never” used the term in such a way was, in the very least, foolish. Iowa Mounds . Michigan Copper . The problem with this is that the GMT is now regarded as settled science based on a study that did NOT provide definitive proof, and it was done with a science method that was in its infancy … 2. Cumorah was the name given to Moroni’s New York hill by early Latter-Day Saints. By implication, the Cumorah of the golden plates is not the Cumorah of the final battles—Mormon’s hill and Moroni’s hill are not one and the same. Close to Palmyra, NY, there is a hill that Mormons call the Hill Cumorah (the name given to the hill by the founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith in the late 1820's). Dale said, “Of course Joseph Smith never called the hill in upstate NY “Cumorah,” nor does a candid reading of the Book of Mormon allow that it be the “Hill Cumorah” of the text.”Sure he did. Number. But around the Hill Cumorah area, the closest site numbers are about 60 miles away. And it shouldn’t surprise me all that much, as I knew that Mormons had established “Cumorah” as a place name for the NY hill since at least the mid 1830s–long before Smith’s death. ; Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~). Clark has also noted: "The cultural worlds of ancient Mesoamerica and early New York are far enough apart that it ought to be simple to discover from which one the book came. What many of them h… The Present day Hll in New York was never referenced as the Hill Cumorah till many, many years following Joseph Smiths death. [Clark, "Archaeology and Cumorah Questions," 144-51.] Archaeology; History Near Hill Cumorah. Apparently, some BYU people are saying the Nephites lived in Central America, far from New York. While it’s probable that early Latter-Day Saints may have supposed that the hill located in New York State was the hill in which all of Mormon’s records were deposited, a close reading of the Book of Mormon text does not support this conclusion. Moronis Battle . In Search of Ancient Cumorah - 3 (7:51min.) Purpose of research: Trying to find if Elder Talmage took any soil samples on and around Hill Cumorah in a radius of several miles. I’m of course very familiar with the quote, and am a bit ashamed to be challenged from such an established source. ; New to … tion became the adopted standard for Mesoamerica. ... "Book of Mormon Archeology: the Myths and the Alternatives," (PDF) Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought Vol. Why Did Moroni Deliver the Plates on Sept. 22? The hill Cumorah is sacred ground to the Latter-day Saint. This video introduces the conflict between LDS scholars and LDS prophets on an important issue. It was these golden plates that Mormons believe was translated by the gift and power of God into what is now known as the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith and Book of Mormon Geography, Eastern Hemisphere Book of Mormon Geography, Western Hemisphere Book of Mormon Geography, Statements about Book of Mormon Geography, As We Interpret the Bible We Can Make Mistakes, Falling Away from the Pure Gospel of Jesus Christ. Although it is not known where, many people prescribe to the two Hill Cumorah theory. This Book was given to Joseph Smith in 1823 A.D. The people of Zarahemla landed on the shore of the Land of Desolation, after crossing a salt sea (Alma 22: 30). On September 22, 1827, the angel allowed Joseph to obtain the golden plates from which the Book of Mormon would be translated. (Mormon 6:6)Two different hills, in two different locations, both called "Cumorah".----------------------The original "hill Cumorah" as talked about in the Book of Mormon is the place where Mormon "hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records"  (Mormon 6:6)  Evidence indicates that this "hill" is located in Mesoamerica. Tag Archives: book of mormon archeology Lamanites & Indians & A Strange Encounter. After all, all “scientific” religion apologetics deserves a good jab in the ribs more than every now and again.Sincerely,Dale. And I’m glad you called me out on it.But it is pretty well established that Joseph Smith was not the one responsible for connecting the Book of Mormon name with the NY place, and the descriptions in the text itself certainly beg to challenge such a connection.But on top of the literary dilemma of connecting name to place, it seems an especially strange thing to me that Smith never describes the angel Moroni as identifying the hill as “Cumorah.” P.S. Click here to start a new topic. How Long did it take Joseph Smith to Translate? But they said that all the great cities Joseph Smith said existed in the Americas and the cities he was apart of have never been found. 4 No. The reason is that I thought the post was a rather lame attempt at humor. The last battle of both the Nephites and the Jaredites took place at or near the same location. I’ve come across some interesting information. Forbidden Path . The hill figures prominently in events that led to the organization of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I stumbled across this interesting video that discusses a recent find at the Hill Cumorah. Men, women and children fought till hundreds of thousands on both sides were hewn down, and left to molder upon the ground… That’s because I originally viewed this from the BYU library, which has a block on Youtube. Joseph did not translate all of the plates; there was a portion of them sealed, which you can learn from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants. 6. Posted on February 17, 2012 by grindael. r/exmormon: A forum for ex-mormons and others who have been affected by mormonism to share news, commentary, and comedy about the Mormon church. Cerro Vigia. ARCHAEOLOGY & CUMORAH QUESTIONS. This same "hill" was known by the Jaredites as "the hill Ramah". Yall know it felt cool for me to hear it in Korean. Nephite Passes . Jun 30, 2019 - Explore David Ingraham's board "Archaeology" on Pinterest. “Are you sure you didn’t mean PURE and delightsome?” I asked, not quite hiding the slight hesitation in my voice. Journals, Diaries, etc. 1121. Archaeological & Other Publications by the Church, Digging Into the Book of Mormon Parts 1,2, & 3, Quetzalcoatl, the Maya Maize God, & Jesus Christ, Historia de Yucatán by Bernardo de Lizana, Popol Vuh Sacred Book of the Quiché Maya People, Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Online Edition. In Search of Ancient Cumorah - 2 (6:18 min.) Journal of Book of Mormon Studies, BYU Studies: Archaeology and Cumorah Questions RETURN OF THE PLATES TO CUMORAH “When Joseph got the plates, the angel instructed him to carry them back to hill Cumorah, which he did… the hill opened, and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and specious room…. Q.&A.-About the Xochicalco Stela Stone & the Lock. “The hill Cumorah, with the surrounding vicinity, is distinguished as the great battlefield on which, and near which, two powerful nations were concentrated with all their forces. Hier, am Hill Cumorah von Palmyra, New York, wo am 24. Lehi Leaves Jerusalem . Unlike genuine archaeologists—including faithful Latter-day Saint archaeologists who assure us that “the archaeology of New York is persuasive evidence that Book of Mormon peoples did not live in that region”—Neville asserts that the location of the Hill Cumorah in New York is supported by archaeology and anthropology. Keine Knochen, Haare, Streitwagen, Schwerter, Rüstungen oder sonstige Belege sind dort jemals gefunden worden. Tweet on Twitter. The Olmecs built cities of cement, as did the Jaredites. HILL CUMORAH EXPEDITION TEAM, INC Cumorah Messenger Inside this issue: Volume 5, Issue 2 June 15, 2011 This Sator Square is found on a doorjamb in a Christian owned bakery in Pompeii. If so then the remaining two thirds of The Book of Mormon not translated and the remainder of the thousands of other Plant would be located there too. These criteria are as follows: It was near an eastern seacoast ( Ether 9:3 ). It also makes little sense in light of the Church’s visitor’s center near the Hill Cumorah in New York and the annual Church-sponsored Hill Cumorah pageants. We must look elsewhere for that hill." This video introduces the conflict between LDS scholars and LDS prophets on an important issue. This hill was known to the Jaredites as Ramah. Indian Point . WHITE and delightsome!” I exclaimed. Das Buch Mormon berichtet von zwei großen Schlachten, die am Hügel Cumorah (Ramah . Keith: I’ll admit that this was a rather lame comment to be made by me to this post. HILL CUMORAH EXPEDITION TEAM, INC Cumorah Messenger Inside This Issue Volume 10, Issue 4 December 15, 2016 Continued on Page 3 Continued on Page 2 . This is supposedly where Joseph Smith found the golden plates, buried under a stone. Three videos on YouTube, presented by the Book of Mormon Archaeological Forum. Wakulla Springs . How will this material aid your research: It has been said that Elder Talmage did extensive soil analysis. Posted by Keith on Apr 1, 2008 in Blog | 5 comments. For instance, Sorenson locates the hill Cumorah, scene of the epic final Nephite-Lamanite battle, in Southern Mexico, at a site only 90 miles from the "narrow neck" (the nexus of Nephite civilization). Though the D&C doesn’t say “hill Cumorah”, “Cumorah” here is an obvious reference to the hill in upstate NY where the plates were found–and made in a religious text unquestionably authored by Smith. The Hill Cumorah in Manchester, New York, is the place where Joseph Smith met annually with the angel Moroni from 1823 to 1827. Manchester, NY | A team of archaeologists excavating a drumlin known as Mormon hill or the Cumorah, in western New York, have discovered a set of gold plates which they believe could be linked to the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Joseph Smith Jr. As the post originally appeared to me, in place of the Youtube interface was simply a blank space. The text records that Mormon takes the Golden Plates from that hill. City Nephi . It appears that the scriptural, archaeological and geological evidence supports the conclusion that the "hill" in the State of New York, (Joseph Smith-History 1:51), which is now called in our day "Cumorah", is not the same “hill Cumorah” as recorded in the Book of Mormon. 3. Archeology supports the timetable that the Book of Mormon suggests. 4. Land Desolation . By. The archaeology of New York—and specifically the Hill Cumorah—is persuasive evidence that Book of Mormon peoples did not live in that region. The Book of Mormon A Witness With The Bible, The Book of Mormon Testifies of Jesus Christ, That Book was Written By God or the Devil, Abridgment, Timeline & Dates of Discovery, The Abridgment of the Many Sacred Records, Witnesses Who Saw and/or Handled the Plates, Orson Pratt was Acquainted with All 12 Witnesses, Lehi's and Nephi's Vision of the Tree of Life, Lehi Traveling from Jerusalem to the Red Sea, White Skin Nephites and Dark Skin Lamanites, Ancient Yucatan and Mesopotamia Buildings Similar, The Jaredites Came From the Tower of Babel, The Geographical Location of the Jaredites, A Chronological match of the Jaredites/Olmecs, Those Ancient Inhabitants Who Were Destroyed, Lamanite Descendants Practiced the Passover, Egyptian Dialect Spoken by Native Mesoamericans. In other words, that there was none.Keith, I thought your idea of humor was a little more mature than that, and I’ve since seen the Youtube clip on my own laptop–and NOW get your post.Not that the Youtube clip was anything more than the hardy-har admitted by the host, but I admit I got at least that much from it–and could’ve gotten more with a better delivery. Amulon and Helam . I’ve been caught, I’ll admit.Nice find Keith. 1-2, .2004. There indeed is some archealogical evidence of great battles in the area near the Hill Cumorah, but the academic archeologists have paid little attention to this area, as the Book of Mormon has not yet achieved the same prestige in academic circles as an historical document as has the Bible. LDS scholars have proposed the "Cerro Vigia" (coordinates: 18°33′N 95°11′W / 18.55, -95.183 (Cerro Vigia)) in Tabasco, Mexico, as the hill Cumorah in the Book of Mormon for a variety of reasons. These professionals, who are practicing Mormons, are to be applauded for their honesty. Steel Utilized as Recorded in the Book of Mormon, Quiché Mayas Ancient Tradition of Eternal Marriage, Old Testament Scriptures in the New World, The Creation, Adam & Eve, the Garden of Eden, They Did Bury Their Weapons of War for Peace, Evidences of the Savior's Visit to the Americas, It Happened During the First Days of the Year, Many Cities Buried In the Depth of the Earth, Cities Sunk in the sea and Covered with Water, Ice Core Samples of Volcanic Destruction 34 AD, Behold I am the Light and Life of the world, Pre-Columbus Crosses in the Western Hemisphere, The Prints of the Nails in Jesus Christ's Hands, Jesus Wept and the Multitude Bare Record of It, Aztecs Prayed for the Return of Jesus Christ, Pre-Columbus Gods Correlate to Jesus Christ, The Gospel of Jesus Christ in the New World, Jehovah's Name Known in the Western Hemisphere. See more ideas about Archaeology, Ancient aliens, Ancient mysteries. Are The Names in The Book of Mormon Authentic? “The archaeology of New York – and specifically the Hill Cumorah – is persuasive evidence that Book of Mormon peoples did not live in that region. Cumorah (/ k ə ˈ m ɔːr ə /; also known as Mormon Hill, Gold Bible Hill, and Inspiration Point) is a drumlin in Manchester, New York, United States, where Joseph Smith said he found a set of golden plates which he translated into English and published as the Book of Mormon.. (HOC 1904 ed., II: 79-80). Attack Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon? Many members of the Church are not aware that the hill Ramah of the Jaredites is the same hill as the hill Cumorah of the Nephites (see Ether 15:11). Large Map . The Hill Cumorah Expedition Team, Inc. is now a 501 (c) (3) Corporation: Welcome To the Official Website of the Hill Cumorah Expedition Team, Inc. Hill Cumorah . Any Archaeological Evidence in the United States? While it’s probable that early Latter-Day Saints may have supposed that the hill located in New York State was the hill in which all of Mormon’s records were deposited, a close reading of … It is famously known for being the hill in which Joseph Smith retrieved the Book of Mormon which was made of thin golden sheets chinked together with metal rings. (Ether 15:11), The second "hill" called in our day "Cumorah", is where there was placed in a "stone box" "a book deposited, written upon gold plates". How Can We Know that The Book of Mormon is true? Hill Cumorah, Manchester, New York; Associated Dates: 1879, published; October 16, 1990 – First Presidency states Hill Cumorah is in New York; Prophetic witnesses to the location of the Hill Cumorah First Presidency. It was on a coastal plain, and possibly near other mountains and valleys ( Ether 14:12–15 ). This is supposedly where Joseph Smith found the golden plates, buried under a stone. Close to Palmyra, NY, there is a hill that Mormons call the Hill Cumorah (the name given to the hill by the founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith in the late 1820's). 1, Spring 1993, p. 177). Pre-Columbus Metal Plates & Stone Boxes Found, Vatican Acknowledging a Pre-Columbus Gospel, Seer Stone & the Translation of the Book of Mormon. There are no such caves, cavern … This "hill" is located "convenient to the village of Manchester, Ontario county, New York..."   (Joseph Smith-History 1:51). By John E. Clark . The Hill Cumorah and the Hill Ramah were where Mormon hid up all the records save those few that he gave to his son Moroni. By implication, the Cumorah of the golden plates is not the Cumorah of the final battles—Mormon’s hill and Moroni’s hill are not one and the same. Step by Step Moroni . This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Cumorah article. In the second half of the 19th century, a certain teaching about a cave in the hill began surfacing in the writings and teachings of several leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All rights reserved. Why Book of Mormon Events in Mesoamerica? The Hill in the State of New York called Cumorah, No Artifacts At The New York Hill Cumorah. They are claiming the Hill Cumorah was in Central America as well. Video #3 "This video presents more reasons to look seriously at the Hill Vigia near Vera Cruz, Mexico as a candidate for the Hill Cumorah mentioned in the Book of Mormon." Pre-Columbus Gospel, Seer Stone & the Lock ll admit that this was a rather lame comment to made... More than every now and again.Sincerely, Dale scholars and LDS prophets on an important issue BC ) Mormon?... Excerpts from this article in the Hill Cumorah as referenced in the Book of Mormon buried in the Book Mormon! Research topic: James E. 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